Palestine’s Erbil consul weighs up Trump’s ‘Deal of the Century’

Nazmi Hazouri, the consulate general of the State of Palestine to Erbil, sat with Zane Wolfang for an exclusive interview on February 3 to discuss the Israel-Palestine Peace Plan published by the United States government in January. Ambassador Hazouri has served the Palestinian community in Erbil since the consulate opened in 2011.

The Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) officially recognizes the sovereignty of the State of Palestine, and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas was the first Arab head of state to pay an official state visit to the Kurdistan Region in 2009.

This interview was translated from the original Arabic and edited for clarity. It is an abridged version of a much longer interview and many answers are excerpts of longer responses.

Rudaw: Have you communicated with the Kurdish government about the current political situation in Palestine after the publication of the American plan?

Nazmi Hazouri: After the publication of the American plan there was not communication with the leadership in the Kurdistan Region, particularly on an official level, because it is still in the study phase, and there are still developments. The Palestinian position has been clear and definite. Two days ago, the foreign ministers of the Arab League and today the Organization of Islamic Cooperation in Jedda, in Saudi Arabia [met]. There is agreement over the issues. God willing we will have our chance to speak with the leadership in Kurdistan at the appropriate time.

Despite the Arab League’s statement rejecting the American peace plan, it seems that some Arab countries support the plan. It also seems that many Arab countries have been less supportive of Palestine in recent years. On the regional and international level, who can Palestine look to for support?

We affirm the result of what was announced at the meeting of the Arab foreign ministers during the latest meeting in Cairo in front of the Arab League. Take the statement: they affirmed a unanimous Arab position against the ‘Deal of the Century’. Those speaking had a clear position: the affirmation of a Palestinian state, with East Jerusalem as the capital of a Palestinian state.



The Iraqi government and society face many of their own challenges. Do you think Arab countries such as Iraq and Syria are too busy with their internal problems to help the Palestinian people?

Iraq was the president of the summit of the Arab foreign ministers which was held four days ago in Cairo, and the foreign minister of Iraq was the chair of the session, the chair of the meeting. He expressed a clear position: the commitment of Iraq to the Palestinian cause, the commitment to international legitimacy, and Iraq’s complete support to the Palestinian cause. The presidents of Iraq and Syria, the governments of Iraq and Syria, and the people of Iraq and Syria, despite all of the difficult internal crises and challenges they face, they are supportive of the Palestinian people and the Palestinian cause and the Palestinian vision.

After serving as ambassador to the autonomous regional government in Erbil for more than eight years, do you think a similar model of governance could work between Palestine and Jordan? Would the Palestinian Authority or the Palestinian people consider becoming an autonomous Palestinian region of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan?

As a result of the excellent relationship between the Palestinian and Jordanian people, there is movement towards a popular referendum for a federal union, or federalism, on the condition that it comes after the creation of an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital. This is a choice for the two people, to create a federal union or for there to be federalism. But we hold firm, along with Jordan, which is in support, that a free Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital must be founded on the Palestinian land occupied in 1967 – the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem.

The American plan says that Iran is the largest threat to stability in the region, and that Arab countries need to partner with Israel to counter the threat of Iran. Considering recent events here in Iraq, including the ballistic missiles targeting Erbil, do you see Iran as a threat to regional stability?

We see the primary and fundamental factor for instability in the region as being the Israeli occupation, the occupation of Palestine, and our primary enemy is the Israeli occupation. If there are problems between the countries of the region, they can be solved through the means that are possible. Iran, America, and Europe made the five-part agreement [JCPOA Nuclear Accords]... Europe is still committed to the five-part agreement, and America was committed to it in the previous administration, but Trump changed the rules of the game and the relationship. We consider any disputes in the region to be secondary to the Palestinian cause, not primary to it, but we call for a solution to these disputes through peaceful means and dialogue. Iran is a neighboring country to the Arab nation; there can be Arab-Iranian dialogue just as there was European-Iranian dialogue and American-Iranian dialogue. This exists. President Trump also calls for dialogue with Iran, and always says to [Iranian President Hassan] Rouhani to call him on the phone, to speak to him. He doesn’t see Iran as being somewhere on a different planet.

The common thinking in America is that Hamas works together with Iran. The American plan requires the disarmament of Hamas, and requires that the Palestinian Authority become responsible for Gaza. Do you think this is a realistic condition? Can the PA and Hamas work together to oppose this peace plan?

First off, we can’t deny that there is a relationship between Hamas and Iran. We also can’t deny that there is a relationship between Palestine and Iran. We, the state of Palestine, have an embassy in Tehran, and we have an ambassador and diplomatic representation in Tehran. And Iran is a member of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation. As such, Iran is a member in the Islamic community, and has a seat at the table. If there were a relationship between Hamas and Iran for specific reasons, this reason is the Israeli occupation. Why does Hamas seek help from Iran or others? To defend itself, to defend our Palestinian people. We as Palestinians believe in the international legitimacy of the Palestinians, and Hamas must fall within Palestinian international legitimacy, and the Palestinian national vision.

The plan specifically mentions the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement, calling it “destructive towards peace.” What are your feelings on this global movement?

This movement supports peace and the rights of the Palestinian people. This movement is against the settlements. It is not against Tel Aviv and Israeli society. It is against the goods that come from settlements. It is against settlements, since they are settlements on Palestinian land. And against the products of these settlements. And it is against the racist separation wall. And this is in alignment with the advice of the Court of Justice at The Hague.

What do you say to people who call the BDS movement anti-Semitic? What do you say to people who say Palestinians or those who support Palestine are anti-Semitic?

No one is proposing anti-Semitism... The BDS, or other international organizations, like the Israeli peace movement now, like the many Israeli personalities who are concerned with peace, and want peace, have united around a common position, which is the two-state solution. It is not in line with our understanding or awareness to cooperate with organizations who are enemies of the Jews.

All the Palestinians I have spoken to oppose the plan. However, some people I have spoken to in Kurdistan and in America think that Palestine should take the deal because it will not receive a better offer in the future. Can you explain why the Palestinian Authority is unwilling to consider this deal, and under what terms Palestine is willing to negotiate?

I call on Americans to be aware of the history of the Palestinian cause, the history of the Palestinian people, and the existence of the Palestinian people in their nation of Palestine... in order to know... the humanity of this people, who were creative and creators in all senses: civilization, culture, humanity, sciences; excellence in all fields. We are a cultured people. We carry our big hopes and dreams. We love dance, we love life, we love music, we love ballet, we love culture. We weave our beautiful social life with love, romance, with humanity. We are not a devoid people; we are a people who love life. Even our great poet Mahmoud Darwish said: From stone, we will build a nation of lovers. Today the Palestinian people want international legitimacy. We want the Security Council. We want the UN General Assembly. This is what organizes life, security, and peace. We as Palestinians believe, if a Palestinian state were created with Jerusalem as its capital, the abidance of the Palestinian people and the Palestinian state and the Palestinian leadership, we would contribute to the building of peace in the world. That our faith is in building peace in the world. We don’t want war. We don’t want an armed Palestinian state. We want unarmed police, the traffic police to be unarmed. We don’t want a war, we want peace. As I said, we want peace for us and for their generations, the generations of the Israeli people. We don't want a separation wall between us. The separation wall is abhorrent. It strangles Jerusalem.

 

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