President Masum: Kurds must put all deals with Iraq in writing

Masum, a native Kurd, believes that in their talks with the Iraqi parliamentary blocs and political parties the Kurds must put their demands and conditions on the table from the start and have every agreement or deal in writing to avoid complications down the road.

The Iraqi president thinks that neither the US nor Iran will bear unrealistic pressure on Iraq with regards to the imposed sanctions on Tehran and that both countries understand Iraq's intricate position.

As a final wish for this term as president, Masum says that he hopes for democracy to prevail in Iraq because it's something that guarantees the rights of every citizen.

Rudaw: You chose September 3 as the date for the first parliamentary session. Why that date? Do you think it was dragging on for too long?

Fuad Masum: Well, the timeframe is 15 days and Sept. 3 is the end of that deadline. The Federal Court decreed that within 15 days of the ratification of the election results the president must formally ask the house of representatives to convene. Many hoped the Eid holidays would not fall within those fifteen days, but the court insisted that the fifteen-day timeline must be respected because that is what the constitution stipulates.

 

And because of Eid many had traveled or tended to other commitments. Today was the first day of regular working days since Eid

and therefore that decision has to be made today and next Monday the parliament must convene.

 

Was it only about that fifteen-day timeline or because you sense some progress in the negotiations and closeness among the parties?

First and foremost we're committed to the constitution and the president must abide by the constitution more than anybody else especially on an important issue like this. Besides, our experience from the past shows that the serious talks and progress all occur in the last days before the end of the deadline. That's why I hope that the political parties, blocs and factions sort themselves out and reach agreements.

 

And it is not as before anymore when they used to say that the Shiites, Kurds and Sunnis work separate from each other. This time around negotiations are taking place between Shiites, Kurds and Sunnis and some groups include all those groups at the same time. And that is a new thing.

 

Is this new style of work good for Iraq and its governance?

 

It is good for the future because relations between people becomes a relationship between citizens of a country, nothing based on

being a Shiite, Kurd, Sunni, etc. And Kurds certainly prefer to be treated and approached as Kurds and not something else.

 

But it happened the last time around too that the first session of parliament did not close and was left open-ended for quite a while.

 

What do you expect this time?

If it is left open like that then it is a clear violation of the laws of the Federal Court. The court decided a long time ago that no session must be left unfinished and the pivotal issues such as electing the speaker of parliament and his two deputies must be finalized there and then. Second, the names of those nominated for the post of president must be made public. And the new president is the one to know which bloc has more seats than the others and other such details. And the biggest bloc in parliament must have put its act together on the first day of parliament in terms of names of its MPs, agenda, etc, otherwise it will cause confusion down the road.

 

What will be the consequences?

 

The law says that the biggest bloc must identify itself on that first day.

 

What happens if the first session doesn't meet those conditions?

In that case the responsibility won't fall on the shoulders of the eldest member of parliament who oversees the session but it would

fall on all. In 2010 I ran the parliament and it lasted five months that way. And it was then that the court decreed that no open-ended sessions are allowed and that the first one must open and conclude the same day. Otherwise it will cause complications and then all the factions must get together and decide on what to do next and how to solve it.

 

What if that first session did not take place at all because the required percentage of members was in place?

That can't be, otherwise how would you elect the speaker of parliament?

 

If the first session couldn't be carried out as planned, who will decide on the next move, the president?

Certainly! It will be the president, but he will act in coordination with the parliamentary blocs.

 

Let's talk about the issue that is often raised and it's whether it's better for the Kurds to hold the post of president or that of the speaker of parliament? And I asked you once before about the same topic and you said for the Kurds it might be better to have the speaker of parliament.

Each one has its own advantages and disadvantages. As regards the speaker of parliament, it is a very active post where meetings, discussions and sessions are taking place all the time. But in the meantime the post of the speaker of parliament is a post that could be revoked along those of his two deputies in a single session. But the post of president is something firm. The president can also play an essential role internationally. The speaker of parliament does not have that chance. Much also depends on the people holding either of those posts. The speaker of parliament and and president each have their own qualifications and responsibilities and those must be taken into account.

 

In recent weeks you have been meeting with delegations from all parties and ethnic and religious groups including even foreign delegates. What role have you as president played these days in bringing these parties closer to each other?

 

My role hasn't been to bring them closer because each bloc and faction have their own issues, demands and vision to deal with and it's up to them what they do along the way. My main priority was to set the date for the first session and I met with all the parties for

that and they all agreed that it must be within the constitutional timeline. But if it did not occur because there weren't sufficient numbers or one side or another boycotted or any other reason, then the president will have to investigate the reasons and meet with them once again and get them closer for a decision.

 

It is not the job of the president to bring parliamentary blocs together. It is up to them who they ally with and what is in it for them in terms of ministerial and governmental posts, etc. What I do, as I said, is sit with them and work for consensus. For example, I met with all the parties on setting the date for the first session and I told them right away that if they expect me to act in violation of the constitution I wouldn't. I couldn't say, for instance, let's take out the few days of Eid holiday and start the fifteen-day deadline from today. That would be against the law and I would do no such thing. I tried to persuade them all that we mustn't delay anymore and seize the remaining week or so to finish what we have to do and I sensed they were all responsive to that.

 

The constitution insists on the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Iraq and as president you're a protector of that constitution. But now there are serious disagreements among all including Shiite groups. What do you think should be done to ensure these disagreements do not lead to a precipice?

The Shiite disagreement would not reach a point that may partition their region. They are all in agreement that Iraq must stay as one country as it is on the map. But in the meantime it is clear that governance isn't an easy thing. It requires arguments, discussions, negotiations and I expect them all to reach a deal by the end of this week. I've been going through this process since 2005 and I can tell that it goes all the way to the last day. Once we stayed up till four in the morning to finalize all the decisions.

 

So that means there will be more sleepless nights?

 

Yes, without a doubt.

 

The Kurds have always tipped the balance in Iraqi politics and they say whichever side the Kurds join will be the big coalition. So what do you think the Kurds should focus on in their negotiations in order to reach a deal and also achieve their set goals?

 

There are a number of things that would keep the Kurds with everyone else. The first thing is democracy. If there is democracy in

Iraq then everyone's share and rights are protected. We should not go straight to the Kurdish things. We must handle the general things first, and within those general things comes the Kurdish demands.

 

The Kurds obviously have some issues they want to solve and borders and disputed territories are among them. It is not something that could be solved within a few weeks or months. No! The exact steps for solving them have to be identified and then see how many steps have been taken within the timeline. Second, the issue of oil has to be solved. It should not remain a problem that resurfaces every day. These are things that the Kurds must try to solve and work on it. For instance, when the Kurds agree to go into an alliance with a bloc they have to put their demands and conditions on the table from day one and everything has to be written down and signed by both sides. In politics documents and signatures do not mean they are above the law but having things on paper would be a good capital for the people of Kurdistan.

 

But there have been agreements and documents in the past too, especially during the term of Nouri al-Maliki where a 21-point

agreement was signed and yet all of them, the most important of which had to do with Kirkuk, were ignored.

 

In 2010 there were serious disputes, especially between two of the largest blocs. One under Ayad Allawi and one under Maliki. The rivalry was severe and they could not bring themselves to agree on anything except on a few personal things. They formed a joint committee to restore political confidence to some and then carry out further negotiations only after the ministerial posts had been appointed. That's why those negotiations did not succeed. This time everything has to be solved beforehand.

 

There is one thing and it is that the Kurds have not made it a condition that if they withdraw from the government the government will collapse. Is such a thing legal to do and can the Kurds do something like that?

 

It all depends on those parties who form the government together. For example, if three or four ministers leave the cabinet it won't mean — legally or constitutionally — that the government is collapsed.

 

I don't mean the legal aspect of it, but the aspect of the agreement they have.

 

But is every agreement fully implemented? That's the question. That's why the Kurds have to be practical in what they do and tie things together. And it is of course obvious that if they withdraw from the government it will have an impact. Regional and international impact which will be in the Kurds' favor.

 

It's always said that Iran and the United States are the main players here and that they call the shots. Is that true and do they really have that much influence on these talks?

 

The influence is not in the form of making threats and warning of consequences, but it is clear that some are closer to the United States, some to Iran, Saudi Arabia or Turkey. Those kinds of relations exist between the blocs and those countries.

 

Do they not have any influence on the talks and deals?

 

They do but not in a way that would lead to decisions or nature of deals.

 

The United States has imposed a series of sanctions on Iran and Iraq too must abide by them. Will Iraq do that?

It's not easy to speak in absolute terms. Neither the US will treat Iraq in such micro-details nor Iran will perceive Iraq as an enemy

and an American all and seek revenge. In addition, the Americans appreciate Iraq's position and understand its relations with Iran. What's more pressing for the US at the moment is transactions and transfer of dollars to Iran. And the movement of dollars is taking place under US watch, but businessmen and traders bringing things to or from Iran isn't something falling into that category.

 

So you mean Iraq abides by these sanctions, but there are many details?

Yes, Iraq abides but mainly by the movement of US dollars. Iraq cannot transfer money to wherever it wants without knowing where it is going and what it is for.

 

Will you run for the post of president again?

The first time I nominated myself it was rather sudden. I was asked to do that and it was an honor for me. I'm proud of this post. It

is a good feeling to be president but of course it comes with responsibilities and difficulties. But if I'm asked to run against for this post I'm ready to continue serving Kurdistan and my people. I've been in politics since the age of 16 and I'm very happy that I've never made any regrettable mistakes. But clearly, running for this post again is based on agreements between the various parties and who they may nominate.

 

If you look at this post from the outside simply as Fuad Masum, how would you rate the president?

 

I wouldn't be happy with his duties. Iraq is a parliamentary system. Almost in every parliamentary system all powers go to the

parliament and cabinet of ministers. For instance, when you speak of Germany you'd automatically think of Angela Merkel. Who is their president? Most people don't know. The same for Israel. But with me and Mam Jalal (Talabani) before me we liked to have some authority. Not a kind of authority that would lead to conflict with the prime minister or parliament, but some limited powers at least. But of course the constitution does not allow that. My powers are ceremonial and yet people ask why I didn't do this or that. My powers are neither ceremonial nor unlimited and that's the nature of the system here.

 

I've heard that you have done many things during your term but it is that they are not seen or appreciated. Do you feel the same way?

Yes, certainly! I have the same feeling. But in the meantime I have not tried to open my own television channel or a website which I could try and do, but I never did. That's why most of my work has gone unnoticed. I cannot tell publicly of the peoples I meet and the troubleshooting I do. And I must say, most of the important things I do take place in those kind of meetings. I too would have loved to have my own TV and social media, etc. but I did not try.

 

This could be your last interview as president, so what message may you have for the people of Iraq and Kurdistan Region?

The people of Iraq in their various groups are living together in this country and that unit must be preserved as far as possible and we must try to ensure democracy prevails here because democracy is support for every individual and every citizen and that's my only wish.

 

For Kurds?

For Kurds and for all of Iraq.